Tuesday, June 06, 2006

我最想非議的藝人

森美小儀開了一個自以為無傷大雅的玩笑,結果得罪了「本港半數人口」。

面對如下指控「公然踐踏女性尊嚴」、「鼓吹性暴力文化」、「貶低女性,亦即是令本港半數人口受辱蒙羞」、「反智、反道德、以非為是」、「粗劣、低品味」……來勢洶洶,不知兩人日後會否被傳媒提昇到「魔鬼警察」級的「接待規格」。

談到冒犯女性的尊嚴,論普及和滲透情度,我想那些減肥(對,是減肥,不是他媽的纖體、塑形)和美白廣告更為甚。

到底那群在媒體發言的指控者裡,有多少個心底裡真的幼稚到認為森美小儀的出發點是鼓勵和煽動年青人群起上街去非禮別人?又有多少人認為時下年青人真的笨到做完一個問卷調查後,便「覺醒」到原來「非禮也不是甚麼一回事」,便跑上街非禮別人?

如果香港人真的笨到這個程度,你想家長的責任大,還是學校的?還是森美?小儀?

我喜愛看暴力漫畫,但我可是連蟻也不願殺的人,買隻冰鮮雞回家,斬頭的一刻令我好生難受。看到魚販宰殺我買下的活魚,心裡都想不如吃齋算了。不過,如果有一天,我「不幸」犯了殺人罪,我一定會辯說年幼時,看得太多教育電視和教科書,吹咩!

森美小儀真正的錯誤,是在一個偽善、缺乏幽默感、以道德口號管治的城市開這個壞品味玩笑。

49 comments:

emily said...

是啊,太多人站在道德高地了
虛偽

M-2 said...

今天和女朋友lunch time談及這件事,幾乎要反檯……
近日很多東西使我討厭:力轟聞西的教會、逃避歷史責任的中央、野蠻且欠幽默感的女權主義者、將照燒雞扒飯落成豉椒雞扒飯的茶餐廳老細……(不過豉椒雞扒飯都不錯!)

titainred said...

如果"野蠻且欠幽默感的女權主義者"是罪的話,可想現在的男女平等真的只是一個幻象。美麗的糖衣,大家都喜歡。只不過,有些生活態度,是政治堅持的一種。

靜儀 said...

我也認為,"我最想非禮的藝人"只是開玩笑...但很多人借題發揮,扮有尊嚴,但在火車上卻有不少女仕拿著各本以女性做文章的八卦週刊,而我本人側看作笑話,"我最想非禮的藝人"也只不過是笑話吧。

M-2 said...

我不明白搞男女平等那幫人在想什麼,難道社會上只有女性被歧視嗎?
於我而言,有時候所謂的不平等只是他們一廂情願的想法,對於這些個別事件反應太過敏了吧!
這種小題大造的手法只會令人對他們更反感。

何故 said...

滔:

http://www.cuhkacs.org/~hegu/Bo-Blog/index.php?job=art&articleid=a_20060608_025824

我也分享了對此事件的看法,當中借了你的結論:

森美小儀真正的錯誤,是在一個偽善、缺乏幽默感、以道德口號管治的城市開這個壞品味玩笑。

Anonymous said...

寫得好, 比那班偽善者好好睇清楚自己的所作所為!!

M-2 said...

何故,寫得好!

傲笑紅塵 said...

袁建滔先生, 這文章寫得太好了,
我想把你這文章轉載至我的hompy,
亦列明原文網址及原作者, 而題目前加上"轉載"二字, 只是想把這好文章分享給更多的人.

如這行為令先生帶來不便, 或不滿, 請於此回覆通知, 我會立即刪除轉載的文章, 改為只提供連結的方式作分享.

Anonymous said...

如果香港人真的笨到這個程度,你想家長的責任大,還是學校的?還是森美?小儀? good

雖然森小有錯,但是我相信香港的年青人不會笨到上街非禮人吧,婦女們教不好她們的孩子,都關森小的事嗎?????

man said...

袁建滔先生感謝你的公道說話..
媒介的威力太大了...

人怕出名豬怕肥.. ..唉"

fat said...

我都想轉載一下, from 某 newsgroup
"侮辱人果個唔覺得自己侮辱緊人
比人侮辱緊的人亦唔覺得自己被侮辱緊
是為低劣組合"

Anonymous said...

絕對同意你的觀點!
可憐森小被屈服於香港人的小題大做及鼓吹「惡勢力」的傳媒了~

Anonymous said...

在這個話題上,我也有一種看法,一種與袁先生或其他網有不一致的看法...

沒錯,我完全相信森美、小儀開出這樣的投票並非要鼓吹青少年去非禮女士。袁先生這樣的反駁,我想是過於表面。事實上,這樣的一個題目正反映了一個深層現象,或許我們已被那些減肥/美白廣告潛移默化,以"幽默"形容女性的話題,把性別歧視的問題越看得不在眼裏。這樣的一項投票反映了,在我們的意識形態裏,歧視女性的問題仍然是一個不值得重視的課題。

曾幾何時,我也以為女性主義已在我們這一代抬頭,但看到多位網友在留言板和討論區的留言,原來我錯了,性別歧視依然是根深柢固。

請不要說他人站的道德位置太高。請先反思我們是否將我們的標準定得過於寬鬆...

titainred said...

我絕對同意,
當自稱是女性主義是自找痳煩的話,
我的確相信這樣的政治鬧爭是必須繼續.
若然要罵婦女團體是在找痳煩,
我在想這不是道德過高,
而是我們太習慣穩定且不變的道德觀.

想一想明光社的強詞奪理
真的要認真思考,
什麼是道德觀.

我自認是女權主義者
又有何不妥?

袁建滔 said...

想不到本文會引來這麼多COMMENTS,PAGEVIEW更破紀錄地接接近900……喜歡本文的朋友太過獎了,我還是喜歡寫大眼仔多於寫這類月旦時事的東西。

正因為每人道德的「寬鬆」、「高低」、「貴賤」不一,用道德口號來管治,是很危險的事情。

有說律政司正研究起訴與否,我想讓法律去解決反而是件好事。要知道,這種「以言入罪」(誘使他人犯罪)玩起上來,點砌都得。今是是非禮,明天可能是「分裂祖國」、「煽動叛亂」。

大家意見不同,是很合理的事情。但最令我不安的是接受媒體訪問的各「學者」、「講師」全部一致狂插……在這股正義旋風下,要挺直腰板也不容易。

Anonymous said...

首先,如果投票是有這樣大的社會影響力,想必一些高官的民意調查將會"煸動"更多人民,嘗試將這些高官逐一拉下馬,事實証明投票未能誘人犯罪、更莫說是叛國。

袁先生嘗試揣摩森小的背後動機,指把事情政治化是要"砌"森小一個煸動他人犯罪的罪名,"砌"日後的投票會叛國。但正如之前我所提及,我不相信森小的投票是想/是可以煸動青少年去非禮女性。請不要再以此為藉口(把事情放至無限大),逃避此投票是有歧視女性之嫌,逃避歧視女性在我們的意識形態依然存在,甚至不被察覺...

我不應為把此事政治化是一件好事。這只會將事性兩極化,反對的人更為反對,支持的人更為支持,最後,性別歧視仍然是女性團體的專利,得不到社會人士/青少年的重視...

by 文

BEN said...

曾幾何時,中國女性要著得密實手臂都唔俾露,男性就由始至終都可任性地暴露他們的兩點乳頭。歧視做成的「不公平」的而且確存在,但我唔清楚女權主義者基於甚麼觀點來定義此為「男性」對「女性」的一種歧視,是選擇衣著既自由?定係暴露身體既自由?又或者有冇可能存在著部份「女性」對「女性」自身的一種歧視?姑且不談。

今時今日的香港女性在公開場合的衣著限制少了,機乎只要「唔露點」就冇問題。當中有保守也有開放的個人主張,著得比較多布的會有人話「老土」/「健康」,著得少布會有人話「性感」/「引人犯罪」。對於前者我冇意見,但對於後者我就有些少疑問:普遍女性選擇「性感」衣著出席公開場合的目的是為甚麼呢?假設是對「美」的一種表現方式,那麼對像是誰?是自己?還是公眾?假設她們當中的衣著是屬於低胸類,露出深淺不一的乳溝,而這種表現方式亦是一般人都認同的「美」,那麼一眾男女對這些深淺不一的乳溝們報以注目禮,就應該是對這種「美」以行動方式來表示贊同。但遺憾的是,有人認為男性/女性專注地釘著自己的乳房/乳溝,是一種精神上的強姦行為,且因此而感到困擾。

女的在此不作談論,男性對女性胴體的欣賞到底是基於甚麼原因?假如要一位男性作答,可以是單純的「先天性咸濕」,也可以宣稱是一種「等同於欣賞蒙羅麗莎」的情感作用。我不能質疑兩者的真確性,因為兩者皆為不能驗證的個人「神秘體驗」。但至少我認為無論答案是甚麼,甚至女性們期望答案是後者,都未必能夠令女性從那種「精神上的強姦行為」中得到解脫,但抱持後者的男性卻可從這罪名中得到開脫(假設有人相信)。

社會的道德壓力教導我們,欣賞同一類事物可以有「低俗」同「高尚」兩個天與地的角度之分別,因此在家中睇四仔是「低俗洩慾」,去HMV買「NINE SONGS」就是「藝術觀賞」。

社會的道德壓力亦教導觀賞者有責任去保護被觀者的個人感受,我們無需要理會部份女性「穿衣之道」行為上的本質,即縱使有人利用部份男性「欣賞女性胴體」的天性,得其注意後從中得到莫名其妙的滿足感,事後也可以指摘其「侵犯」行為「實在對我做成精神困擾」,因此我們還是要認為,男性是有責任去辯稱該女的胴體在性質上是一件高貴藝術品,欣賞之中沒有半點色情成份,最終目的就是免得女性們感到尊嚴被傷害。

女性尊嚴同男性型像同時間都在虛偽的托詞下得到保護,社會道德壓力要求大家要以虛偽來維持社會表面上的和諧,保護族群或個人尊嚴。這實在不宜用「好」與「壞」來作評論,只是為了各取所需而設立的「社會基制」,但不得不承認,這樣的一個社會是何其「變態」!

titainred said...

當大家還在談什麼是形意上的道德之時....
請看一看獨立媒體的討論和婦進的立場。

〈獨立媒體〉http://www.inmediahk.net/public/article?item_id=119285&group_id=14
〈新婦女協進會〉
http://www.aaf.org.hk/big5/article.adp?article_id=1073

森小,他們是媒體,他們有的是責任,
媒體也利用他們的事件偽道德一番,
全都是媒體的抄熱。
偽善定偽道德,
大家如何利用媒體表現,
都是一樣。

AddISON said...

個投票刀係娛樂性質je,只是香港教育和上一代的人太過保守!!其實 投訴果D真係年青人?
投票D女星刀未出聲,,,果個汪明全同婦女會就已經罵la,,,
其實同類既投票在台灣同外國,,japan too已有ga la

RW said...

一針見血的言論

morning glory said...

其實,這件事情中反影出香港團體及高官的政治手段,香港人社會政治體制仍然落伍,保守及填鴨的制度下而生產的單一思考人士們仍然未能放眼世界,突破傳統上一些腐敗的枷鎖而自我進步,跨進國際,所以香港文化的落伍是一定的,創作人因此而遠走他方發展理想也是一種無奈,只恨香港領導層真的走得太慢了...回應網主的結論: 森小只是比香港社會文化走得快!

said...

板主:

我想在我的blog,借用你的文章內的結論來支持自己的想法,希望你不會介意。謝謝你


http://spaces.msn.com/mebar/

檸檬羊:> said...

香港人偽善、缺乏幽默感、以道德標準高而自居~在香港很難做創作。
李國章公然要求商台森小配合他做教育...這是什麽樣的世界呢?
教育以乎成為人人有責之事...香港教育之淪落已至此?哀!
舉例:英國政府就不會叫全民負起教育之責~難不成跑去叫 "The SUN"收起第三頁(裸女頁)改登道德守則嗎?

M-2 said...

講開又講丫,話就話電台人人聽到,講細路仔聽到會有樣學樣,咁d報紙夠人人都睇到,咁點解咁多年都仲有風月版?
呀李大人咁多道理,自己開會個陣打機都唔肯認錯,係度死撐又係d乜野道理?

Snowdrops said...

1. There is a huge difference between sexual fantasies and sexual assault (and 非禮 is sexual assault).

2. There is a whole world of difference between sexual assault and sexual conservatism. The key is whether the sexual contact is CONSENSUAL. Surely this should have been a lesson in Sex Education 101. Arguing against promotion of sexual assault in the media DOES NOT EQUATE arguing for sexual conservatism, in the same way that arguing against idiotic polls that promote acceptance of the idea of bank robbery (hey let's name ten banks you would most like to rob) does not equate arguing for fiscal conservatism.

3. There is a huge difference between "Repressive Government", "Hypocritical Next/East/Apple Media", "Prudish Moralists", and ordinary people and women's voluntary organisations. Don't lump all legitimate critics as "illiberal-brainless-prudes-afraid-of-sex-and-stirred-up-by-hypocritical-mass-media-conspiring-with-the-repressive-government-agenda". Don't insult the public's intelligence and place oneself on the "intelligent highground" when you yourself can't tell right from wrong.

4. In an era dominated by Next/Apple/East media, I found it hugely absurd that somebody would still hold on to this notion that the present Hong Kong media is still prudish and sexually-repressive.

5. Just because others have committed far worse crimes that you, doesn't mean that you are allowed off the hook for the mistake that you yourself have committed.

6. There is a huge difference between being popular and being right.

Anonymous said...

當然「性幻想」同「非禮」意義上差天共地,但斷估一個男性的「性幻想」絕對唔會係同佢既幻想對像「純吃茶」如此間單...掛?
「我最想非禮的XXX」,當中的「想非禮」,本身就只係一種「性幻想」,假若換轉成「最能令我產生性幻想的XXX」,我諗會「順耳」番些少。
無可否認此投票題目非常之惡趣味,但我諗真係冇空間塞得落
咁多罪名...
又假如投票題目改成「我要去非禮的XXX」,就真係理應被千夫所指,死在萬刀之下....我都會想去斬佢九十九碌!:目

Snowdrops said...

Anonymous wrote: "當然「性幻想」同「非禮」意義上差天共地,但斷估一個男性的「性幻想」絕對唔會係同佢既幻想對像「純吃茶」如此間單...掛?"

Who says sexual fantasies include only "純吃茶"??? It wouldn't be called "sexual" fantasies would it if you're only going for a cup of coffee. The key difference between「性幻想」同「非禮」which you've miserably failed to note is that one is in the realm of individual fantasy where the recipient of your attention accepts your sexual advances, whilst the very definition of 非禮 is that sexual contact is initiated against a person's will. The difference between the two is NOT that one is sexually tamer than the other, but that one could be CONSENSUAL while the other is CLEARLY NOT. Get it?

So you could have a poll asking people for the actress they would most like to engage in any type of XXX-rated sexual activities and it would still have been perfectly legitimate, but to use the term 非禮 is totally inexcusable even in liberal, sexually-progressive Western media* precisely because its very definition involves a victim of sexual violence.

*I would say the poll would NOT be condoned "especially" in liberal, sexually-progressive Western media precisely because these media are the first propagators of women's rights and the feminist agenda. Remember it is the feminists who burned bras and demanded sexual freedom for women. So what gets my goat are those Sammy/SiuYee supporters who try to paint the feminist organisations as "sexually-repressive man-haters". They really have no clue and I feel sorry for these blind fans.

jol said...

i think samsiu is in the wrong time wrong place wrong situation. i truly think this is not a problem, i don't see why people freak out on this normal topic. this topic isn't a bigggg deal anyways..im sure hk teenagers were already exposed to "sex" long before they step into secondary school. the women organization are probably the only group that still hold the traditional mind set, which is naive. c'mon, this is 2006, is not 1900. get with the program ladies! just let dj go!

Snowdrops said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Snowdrops said...

Jol says "i truly think this is not a problem, i don't see why people freak out on this normal topic. this topic isn't a bigggg deal anyways."

Great, thank you for letting us know that you think sexual assault is a "normal topic" and "isn't a bigggg deal". I will advise my girlfriends to avoid you like the plague.

"im sure hk teenagers were already exposed to "sex" long before they step into secondary school."

You still don't get it do you? We are talking about SEXUAL ASSAULT, NOT SEXUAL ACTIVITIES BETWEEN CONSENTING ADULTS!! If you think that HK primary school kids have been exposed to learning how to 非禮 their female classmates then I'm truly sorry for the state of education in HK.

And just so you know, people are not "freaking out" over this poll, they are rightly indignant at the amount of lies and excuses being offered in defense of an indefensible albeit thoughtless mistake. If you can't get your head around a simple and straightforward difference between consensual sex and sexual assault, then don't paint yourselves as these "sexually-enlightened", "intelligent", "modern forward-thinking" people. It would only make people laugh because you guys are really neanderthals at heart.

Snowdrops said...

Hey 袁建滔‧ you wrote in this blog itself that:
"又有多少人認為時下年青人真的笨到做完一個問卷調查後,便「覺醒」到原來「非禮也不是甚麼一回事」,便跑上街非禮別人?"

I think Jol's comment "i truly think this is not a problem, i don't see why people freak out on this normal topic. this topic isn't a bigggg deal anyways.." has completely refuted your contention that this poll would not encourage or further endorse the view that "「非禮也不是甚麼一回事」".

So what have you to say to that eh? It's amazing isn't it that there are really are some of the 時下年青人 who are 真的笨到這個程度吧. While they might not have gone on to commit sexual assault themselves, but they certainly think that sexual assault, a criminal offense, is no big deal. Do you not see something seriously wrong with this picture? Or are you all so male-centric in your thinking that you're prepared to condone or even legalise sexual assault? Did sex education in Hong Kong only teach the students the biology of sex and not also the attendant moral and legal aspects to sexual relations?

真的真的比這班偽善and偽開放者好好睇清楚自己的所作所為!!

In relation to your view that "但最令我不安的是接受媒體訪問的各「學者」、「講師」全部一致狂插……在這股正義旋風下,要挺直腰板也不容易。" Perhaps you should consider that when 接受媒體訪問的各「學者」、「講師」全部一致狂插, then perhaps there really is a just cause for revision of your views rather than persisting in a state of denial.

It's also hilarious how most of the people here have tried to describe 各「學者」、「講師」in Hong Kong as "單一思考人士們仍然未能放眼世界,突破傳統上一些腐敗的枷鎖而自我進步" in order to support their endorsement of the poll. Right, so all these academics with their overseas PhDs and international experience have "single-track minds" and "haven't seen the world to advance beyond corrupt traditions". What a laugh! You don't know anything about how gender studies and issues are tackled in the West if you don't understand the very basic concept of consent in sex. For Jol to tell the ladies to "get with the programme" just takes the micky - you should get with a basic and enlightened programme of gender relations rather than being stuck in the Stone Ages.

It's soooooo easy isn't it to just ignore valid criticisms by simply painting your critics as "偽善、缺乏幽默感、以道德標準高" rather than tackle their arguments head on. Just accept a thoughtless mistake has been made so that we can advance proper discussions about the state of sex education and gender relations in Hong Kong, rather than keep denying there is anything wrong at all. It'd make for far more productive debate as well as a healthier society.

sidekick said...

寫了一篇, 是關於這個的:
“常見到大家問及:“為何對商台此事窮追猛打的報章,自己卻刊有風月版?這不是賊喊捉賊,一百步笑五十步嗎?”
這是我從“技術”層面上的看法,有錯還望大家指正。”
內文有電台的節目標準連結,及其他更多資料,希望大家有空可以看看。

袁說:“有說律政司正研究起訴與否,我想讓法律去解決反而是件好事。要知道,這種「以言入罪」(誘使他人犯罪)玩起上來,點砌都得。”
<-這個“以言入罪”,用得不好,亦用得太好。
電台,明明就是聲音媒介,會犯罪,亦當然是因為“言”,但,是否就等於“點砌都得”呢?
不盡然...
在電台的節目準則,已列得很清楚,這件事實在已犯了錯。
當然,這個錯到底有多大?值得其他傳媒插得這麼狠嗎?我覺得不值的。
現時,最有問題的,已經不是森美小儀,而是那些傳媒高層、政府高官、社團代表,及教育界高人了!

Snowdrops said...

Sidekick says "當然,這個錯到底有多大?值得其他傳媒插得這麼狠嗎?我覺得不值的。
現時,最有問題的,已經不是森美小儀,而是那些傳媒高層、政府高官、社團代表,及教育界高人了!"

I agree broadly with your post, and also completely agree that the point has now become where the "problem" is no longer Sammy and Siu Yee. At least, all Sammy/Siu Yee did in effect in my view was to uncover much more starkly underlying attitudes towards sex in Hong Kong in spite of all the education and Westernization that its populace has received.

What I would disagree however is that the problem lies not only with "那些傳媒高層、政府高官、社團代表,及教育界高人" - at least, the problem is not as straightforward as the Sammy-SiuYee defenders would paint them as. It's hugely insulting for "社團代表,及教育界人" to be lumped in with the Government and the Next/East/Apple media, when there have been many occasions when these stood in opposition with one another, so it's really unfair for S/SY critics to ignore their voices just because these happened to chime in with the Government agenda. It's rather galling that S/SY defenders persisting in the lies that former is co-opted by the latter because they could find no better argument to defend what S/SY has done. The worst form of "argument" in debate is to resort to labelling your opponents as undesirables, such as happened in the state of the U.S. political discourse where Liberals are painted as unpatriotic lily-livered intellectuals who are too stupid to realise that they are being co-opted by the Al-Queda agenda. I see the same type of portrayals being in work here which is extremely worrying. Can the majority of "forward-thinking" "liberal" Hong Kong populace do no matter than the U.S. Republicans?

So all the "其他傳媒插得這麼狠" partly is because of fact that the opposing side just cannot accept that there is a fundamental problem at all. By persisting in a state of denial and ignoring responsibilities, as quite a few posters on here have done, the debate just spiralled into a slanging match on both sides. You cannot have a row with only one side 插得這麼狠, it's about time that the S/SY defenders realise the role that they have played in the row itself, and how they themselves have 插 feminists and community organisations as well as the educators 這麼狠, to the extent of insulting their legitimate critics' all-round intelligence. And again please realise that by legitimate critics I DO NOT include the likes of Next/Apple/East media who are indeed being hypocritical in the extreme and has no right whatsoever to criticise S/SY. The fact though is that the voices of legitimate critics have been drowned out by these mainstream media also whilst at the same time they were being accused of being co-opted by the agenda of these mainstream media.

Simply put, I would argue that there is a dire need to look at this problem on a far more sophisticated level than simple name-calling on both sides.

Snowdrops said...

Sorry, please delete the redundant "not" in the first part of the sentence in the third paragraph - i.e. it should read instead "What I would disagree however is that the problem lies only with..."

Snowdrops said...

Oops, also please replace "matter" with "better" in the last sentence of the third para., so it should have read instead: "Can the majority of "forward-thinking" "liberal" Hong Kong populace do no better than the U.S. Republicans?"

Snowdrops said...

There is a brilliant essay, excerpted below, which decodes in a much more sophisticated way the politics underpinning the debate by 葉一知 at the Diuman Park blog (http://diumanpark.mysinablog.com/index.php?op=ViewArticle&articleId=185081):

"...我說過那是「為求出位不知分寸」,一直認為那只是個小風波,即使婦女團體抗議,也不過像五一勞動節時工人遊行抗議僱主剝削般無力。問題出於森美小儀翌日的反應——如果他們承應一時過火,道歉了事,這個風波可以平息。但一邊廂,選舉名稱改為「最性感藝人」,另一邊廂,他們死撐到底,語帶囂張。

於是風波鬧大,社會輿論狠批,商台和森美小儀才手足無措地道歉。曾蔭權及其SPIN DOCTOR看在眼裏,機不可失,正好從中抽水。...

由於心愛的偶像DJ被逼停職,Fans幾近瘋狂,紛紛發起簽名行動,繼而歪理連篇,意圖為偶像過錯掩飾,力求他們再開咪。謊言說一百次會變成真理,但歪理在某些人面前說一百萬次還是歪理。於是,民間反響更大。

因此,曾蔭權的特區政府正好可以佔據道德高地,大條道理指摘兩人已把青少年教壞,認為此風不可長,出師有名處罰商台。而偏偏這個道德高地,並非特區政府強行攻佔的,而是一班可愛fans為政府越堆越高的。...如果森美小儀夠政治敏感,他們還可以再次公開悔過,呼籲fans不要再盲目力撐,那不單可以贏得掌聲,更可勉強力挽狂瀾,阻止政府借力打力。問題是,他們一如最初,毫無政治意識,令人覺得他們在嚮往fans的力撐,暗示他們的道歉純屬公司決策,心裏還是忿忿不平。

...可悲的是,沒有人是一座孤島——人人以為政治事不關己,卻想不到自己的一時失言便引爆了一個政治炸彈,不單禍及公司,更傷及無辜的廣大市民。...

在政治對弈當中,你爭我奪,借題發揮,本來就是常事。... 即使你是爭取民主的義士,你在大遊行中涉嫌抽水,還是要受到審判。雖然,在政治鬥爭中,往往為達目的不擇手段,偶然要掩著良心做事,但如果那個虛構的民主鬥士在遊行中抽水,我們為大局視而不見,我們又是否真的希望這樣的一個新政府上台?..."

路人乙 said...

不要事事都歸咎於"這是個偽善、假道德"的社會。無可否認我們的社會是偽善和假道德,但難道這就可以把事件合理化嗎?你私下和朋友說說"我最想非禮誰誰誰"沒問題,因為你沒有犯罪的實際行動,頂多是有犯罪的意圖罷了(若果你不是開開玩笑的話),不過透過大氣電波,一項公眾選舉,把"非禮"這項刑事行為的界線模糊化,難道大家認為是理所當然嗎?我不是說森美小儀是真的慫恿人去犯罪,不過,作為一個在這個行頭打滾了多年的人來說,這樣的行為未免太白痴、太沒有專業水平吧!

那些回應的女星們同樣亦是白痴至是非不分。

況且,請不要把香港市民的水平看得這樣高,可能真的有一些青少年會以為這是無傷大雅,又或者,以後用"非禮"、"強姦"的字詞作為開玩笑的字眼,這樣的社會,我可受不了!

請不要把纖體廣告相題並論,兩者完全是不同範疇的事。

至於"煽動分裂國家",那是在討論一個政治的鼓吹,而不是干害人身安全的行為(鼓吹政治暗殺例外),請不要混淆!

檸檬羊 said...

羊係師奶仔~
都抵唔住頸寫咗篇, 引用你這篇囉!
^^ 打個打呼^^
http://blog.yam.com/lemonsheep/archives/1746865.htm

袁建滔 said...

唉~

我從來不以甚麼「文化人」、「資深創作人」自居,雖然讀的是傳理系,都唔知讀左D乜出來。我只想清清淨淨,有個空間,做自己喜歡的事情,就係咁簡單。不過,偶爾都會有D野睇唔過眼,但大部份時間我都懶得出聲,甚至連新聞也少看。

森美小儀呢篇野,純粹個人一時感觸,沒有甚麼仔細推敲,也沒有法理基礎,更沒有甚麼道德包袱,鐘意點寫就點寫。最重要,我冇預過咁多人會睇。

既然大家討論得咁興奮,我便不妨補充多一兩點。

1)我從來冇話過森美小儀做得對。在道德上、專業操守上,肯定是錯。但我不認為他們是壞蛋。本選舉用字(據稱他們原來想用「想入非非」)極為差劣,但如果有人堅持他們的出發點是引人犯罪,侮辱女性、罪該萬死……你有你觀點,我唔會同你死拗落去。

2)我從無事事歸咎於「偽善、假道德」的社會。我所擔心是,大眾傾向把問題的根源歸咎傳媒,而忘記家庭的責任。身為人父,我知道只要父母盡了他們的責任,他們永遠是孩子的首選role model。孩子是一面鏡,你看孩子,便看見他的父母的影子。家庭/家教,是人格成形的第一關,它比教育、傳媒、朋友的影響重要上不知多少倍。
「如果香港人真的笨到這個程度,你想家長的責任大,還是學校的?還是森美?小儀?」我的答案是家長,不是社會。

3)昨晚我跟一個任職某吸血報的舊同學傾開世界杯,談到森小事件。行內人的看法是,森小做得最差的是看輕事情的嚴重性,道歉時誠意不足,讓吸血傳媒搵到「位」做落去。

最後我強烈向大家推薦林奕華本周一在信報寫的好文章。林生議論的範疇,更深更廣更可觀,好野。

PS:上次番東莞,車站內,A遇上B。A劈頭第一句:「X你老母,咁耐唔見去X左邊呀?」B答:「X你老母,你個X樣……」跟住兩人搭住膊頭一齊行。
如果香港有日沉淪到咁樣,都幾得意,「和諧社會」攪唔成,搞番個「詼諧社會」都好。

sidekick said...

inmedia 轉載了林奕華的文章
袁說:“3)行內人的看法是,森小做得最差的是看輕事情的嚴重性,道歉時誠意不足,讓吸血傳媒搵到「位」做落去。”
<-非常同意

Snowdrops said...

Yuen, I appreciate that this is just a personal blog for you to offload all these thoughts in your head (that's the function of mine too). I was only linked to your blog from another blog, but having read your post, and having read how so many others found resonance in what you've written, I can't help myself but to respond (if only so that there's more than one point of view being propagated here).

You said "1)我從來冇話過森美小儀做得對。在道德上、專業操守上,肯定是錯。但我不認為他們是壞蛋。本選舉用字(據稱他們原來想用「想入非非」)極為差劣,但如果有人堅持他們的出發點是引人犯罪,侮辱女性、罪該萬死……你有你觀點,我唔會同你死拗落去。"

Whilst you haven't said that they have done right, you haven't said that they have done anything wrong either. In fact, your original post says that their only mistake was to create a poor taste sex poll in a humourless society. But this is precisely the point that many people want to differ - the question is not just that it's poor taste, but that it's helping to endorse criminal behaviour (and again Jol's comment is a prime example of this). Sense of humour doesn't come into it where sexual assault is concerned.

None of the legitimate critics that I have read are also saying that Sammy/SiuYee are absolute 壞蛋 at all. In my own post for example I have repeated again and again that what they did was a thoughtless mistake. So please DO NOT say that your legitimate critics have been arguing that Sammy and Siu Yee "intended" to cause offense. That's not what we have been arguing at all, so nobody will 同你死拗落去 because you've been missing the point (deliberately?).

In relation to your second point, of course we would all agree that 只要父母盡了他們的責任,他們永遠是孩子的首選role model, but that's not the same as denying that the media also has its influence on the young. Why put this into an either-or question? Just because the parents have to do their job doesn't mean that the media can propagate anything they like. Progressive Western media helps spread ideas of sexual freedom and feminist/socialist ideals, so there is no denying the power of the mass media either, especially a programme whose main audience is the young.

I would heartily agree however with your point 3)"昨晚我跟一個任職某吸血報的舊同學傾開世界杯,談到森小事件。行內人的看法是,森小做得最差的是看輕事情的嚴重性,道歉時誠意不足,讓吸血傳媒搵到「位」做落去。" But I would also add that it wasn't simply an issue of not realising the seriousness of the situation, but that they didn't realise where they have gone wrong at all (i.e. still clinging to the belief that "assault" is simply a "stronger" language to describe sexual fantasies rather than realising that the two are totally different because the former clearly lacks consent and is criminal).

In the end, there isn't much room to advance discussions at all if both sides keep missing each others' points and try to paint the other side as far worse than they are, which is why I was so adamant that we need to move beyond such erronenous labelling as "old-prudish-sexually-repressive-man-haters" or SamSiu as devil DJs. Otherwise this just become another slanging match and as I've said above already, I'm SOOOOO not interested in that.

Thanks Sidekick for posting the link to 林奕華的文章. Whilst he has delved deeper into the issue of sex and celebrity, I don't agree that he's analysed the issue with enough breath at all because he's still only analysing the issues of the "function" of female stars from a male gaze perspective. Dressing sexily is SOOOOO not just about inspiring sexual fantasies anymore in this day and age, but about feeling good in one's skin and flaunting one's body when one still can. The latter is qualitatively different from the former. But in any case, the above didn't relate in ANY WAY to the furore over Sammy-SiuYee because, AGAIN, the issue ISN'T about sexual fantasy but sexual assault.

Anyway, of course if you and fellow bloggers on your site persist in framing the issue as mere semantics about sexual fantasies and labelling your critics as sexually-repressive, there isn't a whole lot anyone can do. Like you said, "你有你觀點,我also唔會同你死拗落去。"

Thanks very much though for kindly providing the space for discussions in your blog comments.

靜儀 said...

我都忍唔住苦笑...。

林奕華那篇真的好野~

檸檬羊:> said...

森小做得最差的是看輕事情的嚴重性,道歉時誠意不足,讓吸血傳媒搵到「位」做落去。

咁又係!^^

看輕事情的嚴重性~是致命點!
森美最初係有的"懶懶閒" 又或者可以話"懵懵地"
不過當時也不會有人估到傳媒會做佢做到咁盡~

森美平時可能同傳媒有牙齒印都未定~ who knows?
:P

Anonymous said...

"1)我從來冇話過森美小儀做得對。在道德上、專業操守上,肯定是錯。但我不認為他們是壞蛋。本選舉用字(據稱他們原來想用「想入非非」)極為差劣,但如果有人堅持他們的出發點是引人犯罪,侮辱女性、罪該萬死……你有你觀點,我唔會同你死拗落去。"

我相信森小的出發點全為了"幽默",絶非引人犯罪、侮辱女性。但我想說的是,社會人士作出這類的"幽默",正反映了男女平等在現今的社會中是如斯的薄弱,在不自覺間,我們會歧視女性,從而"幽默"一番。我只想指出歧視女性依然在我們的意識形態裏根深柢固,我想指出的,就是這一個社會狀況,絕非要拗森美小儀的出發點是引人犯罪,侮辱女性。

Anonymous said...

社會各人道德高低不同,只要不涉及犯罪,各人都可發表各人不同的言論,但可悲的是,有太多人,人云亦云,將傳謀的論點,變成自己的觀點,大示吹噓,盲目追捧,大家有否想過,傳謀利用我們公器私用,或純為做新聞燒紙,這是否要怪從小家長及師長都不鼓勵下一代獨立思考,總是將他們那套直銷給我們,這和今日的傳謀又有什麼分別呢!

chuenj said...

忽發奇想
假如沒人投訴,無人抗議,投票繼續。
最終某藝人"當選",她會否出席頒獎典禮,大談感受?如此又是一個怎樣的社會?
下一個網上投票,會否是"我最想"後庭花"的男藝員"?

Anonymous said...

感謝分享,給妳加加油!

.......................................

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